PONDERING: Dark Skin Shade Rejection or COLORISM

SURPRISE-SURPRISE!  Colorism is alive and well among AAs.  LOL!  Lawdy, Lawdy.  KR, thanks for this piece.  I'm not exactly sure why AAs keep studying dark skin rejection because they never DISCUSS it on high level black media shows like "The Black State of the Union." 

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Black Students Still Favor Lighter Skin, Study Finds
By Kai Beasley

Black College Wire

 A majority of African American students polled at a Midwestern university say lighter complexions are more attractive than darker ones, according to a study conducted by researchers from two Louisiana schools.
The results, taken from a sample of 100 students, indicated that 96 percent of the men preferred a medium to light complexion in women while 70 percent of women found light skin of value in men.
 
This latest analysis of mating preferences explored a number of probable causes, all of which were rooted in the "colorism" prevalent from slavery through the 1960s, where lighter skin typically meant more privilege. The results were published in 2006 in the journal Race, Gender and Class.
 
Ashraf Esmail, a sociology and criminal justice professor at Delgado Community College in New Orleans, and Jas M. Sullivan, an assistant professor of political science and African American Studies at Louisiana State University, conducted the study.
 
According to Sullivan, its purpose was to test whether the color line continues to be a problem for the African American community.
 
"We know that there has been a preference for lighter skin in the past as a result of racism," said Sullivan, "but we really wanted to know whether or not that preference still exists in the 21st century."
The researchers asked 50 African American men and 50 African American women, all students at a large Midwestern university, to participate in semi-structured interviews. The university was not named in the study and Sullivan declined to provide the name for this story.
 
The students were all between 18 and 19 years old with complexions ranging from light to dark. Each subject was shown pictures of light, medium and dark-skinned men or women from fashion magazines and asked to rate the images based on attractiveness. In addition, each respondent was asked questions about their mating preferences in terms of skin color and about the value of skin color in the African American community.
 
One reason for the difference in answers between African American men and African American women, according to the authors, is that women tended to take more characteristics into account, such as lips, hair, eyes, height and style of dress, when determining a man's attractiveness.
 
The interviews pointed to slavery and a social stigma attached to darker skin.
"I think that people are valued for their light skin," said one student. "You can take this theory way back to the house slave mentality. I think a lot of people, because that was valued, were taught to value light skin. I think it is still an ongoing type of thing, and society really has not lost that altogether."
 
Both men and women cited media as a driving force in the preference for lighter skin.
"When you talk to a guy, he thinks that he wants a perfect girl he sees on the videos. Usually, the women portrayed in the videos are light-skinned and have long hair," said one respondent.
 
Still, another participant argued that African Americans don't divide themselves based on light and dark complexions. Rather, the greater issue is color prejudice in the United States as a whole.
"Black people just see all black people as black no matter if they are light or dark. If you have any black in you, the black community considers you black."
 
Analysis for the Esmail-Sullivan study took place in 2000. Though it is the most recent on the subject, its results differ dramatically from an earlier study of African American college students conducted in 1997.
Louie E. Ross, then associate professor of sociology at Fayetteville State University in Fayetteville, N.C., interviewed 149 African American men and 236 African American women for his study, "Mate Selection Preferences among African American College Students." His research was conducted on the campuses of two historically black institutions in the Southeast; one public and one private.
 
The Ross study indicated that only 16.4 percent of women would prefer to date a person of a lighter complexion and 16.8 percent of women would want to marry a person with light skin. The study showed that 33.3 percent of men preferred to date a person of a lighter complexion and 38.3 would prefer lighter skin in a marriage partner.
Taken together, the research by Esmail and Sullivan and the earlier research by Ross indicate that colorism does have some impact on the African American community.
 
Esmail and Sullivan concluded that, "Further research in this area is needed. Clearly, colorism continues to plague the African-American community and we must first accept that claim and begin to find solutions that would ameliorate the superiority of light skin color to dark skin color."
 
Sullivan said there were plans to expand the research to other schools and to include historically black colleges. One of the issues he and Esmail plan to address is that colorism isn't unique to the African American community, he said.
 
The New York Times reported on May 30 that the most popular cosmetic products among modern Indian women are those that lighten the skin. Didier Villanueva, country manager for L'Oreal India, said in the article that "fairness creams" account for half of India's skin care market.
 
In the 2005 book "Fair Women, Dark Men: The Forgotten Roots of Color Prejudice," Canadian anthropologist Peter Frost reports that lighter women were preferred in medieval Japan, Aztec Mexico and Moorish Spain, even before there was significant contact with Western ideology.
 
Sullivan said, "What we sought to uncover in this study is whether or not the preference for lighter skin still exists" in the African American community. "Clearly you could make the connection between the preference for lighter skin and the past, but the deeper question, the question that needs much more observation is the why. Why does the black community self-select? Is this preference a dormant trait, is it something psychological, or is it just that light skin is all we see in the media and that affects our choices? These are the questions that still need answering."
Other studies published by Esmail and Sullivan include: "Black Candidates in Search of Electoral Support: Is Success Dependent on Residential Integration and Social Interaction?" (2003), "Interaction Patterns between Black and White College Students: For Better or Worse?" (2002), and "From Racial Uplift to Personal Economic Security: Declining Idealism in Black Education" (2002).
 
Kai Beasley is a May graduate of Emory University.

 
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IMDiversity and THE BLACK COLLEGIAN are committed to presenting diverse points of view. However, the viewpoint expressed in this article is the opinion of the author and is not necessarily the viewpoint of the owners or employees at IMDiversity, Inc.

 
source: http://www.black-collegian.com/news/bcwire/bcwire_colorism_0607.htm
 

Comments

[sky]

I feel like I've read this before, it was around my "nothing but a bm days". I read it now, it and it doesn't bother me one bit, except the fact that there are still bw out there still holding onto the fact that they may get their black prince, but prince charming isn't even looking their way. hell not even planning on looking their way to begin with.

I'm glad I have my options and my options don't care how dark my skins is, my options don't care how long my hair is, my options don't care if i act black or act white. my options allow me to be me.

also i want to thank whoever found that video on IRR and black women from s2smagazine.com it is about time they are having this dialog, i make sure to have this dialog with my friends. only with those who i know are ready to hear the message.

[Meena]

I think the question should be, why are black people not in favor of loving dark skin? Why are East Indians not in favor of loving their dark skin? Because the fact is, they could have already gotten rid of this self-hate if they really wanted to. That cheap talk about the "media" controlling our minds can only happen if you allow that to happen. I assure you, no one forces me to sit down and watch television, or acknowledge a magazine that is not a reflection of who I am in a positive light. Slavery ended hundreds of years ago. No white master is here to enforce colorism. So once again, the question is why are darker peoples in favor of colorism when they have the power and mental capacity to change it? It is a patriarchal world; yes indeed. So then my question is: Why are black men and East Indian men, and men of darker hues in general, in favor of hating the skin they have so much, that they choose to defile it with their overtly prejudice choices of a partner/mate? The problem is not the women in such a case. I find that males of darker hues, need to do some serious self-reflection and psychological evaluation for why they self-hate. Women in my opinion are only bending to what they feel men want in their respective cultures or groups. The historical account they add in there about Japan, Mexico, and Spain having a preference for lighter skin is sketchy to me. Why? Because they neglected to place clear historical accounts of groups that preferred darker skin women as well. Take a look at "Harry Potter's" recent post titled: "Skin Color and Beauty Standards" or "Ebony Watch Woman's" post titled: "Undeniable". Both of them detail pre-western ideology love for people--women in particular--of darker hues. On a positive note, I love me and the beautiful brown hues my skin takes depending on the weather or time of year 100%.

[Evia]

I think the question should be, why are black people not in favor of loving dark skin?

Meena, I AGREE that this is the KEY question. It's one that is NEVER asked. To hear some black folks talk about it, you would think it's in their DNA to love light-bright-white. LOL! For ex. I've NEVER heard any of these color-struck folks even mention that they're reading and/or getting therapy for their dislike of the skin of their ancestors, relatives, or their own skin. They do NOTHING to change their way of thinking about this or to re-teach themselves. They don't seem to realize that this is a mental illness (just not classified as one due to politics) to devalue or dislike your skin and adore someone else's. There are many mental illnesses with much less severe symptoms and consequences.

I've personally never REALLY understood why some black people don't like/prefer dark skin. I've heard and read all of the reasons, but it still doesn't add up. I know about all of the historical associations and such, but still there's something about it that is missing from those explanations when you consider all of the pain and destruction colorism causes.I can understand why racist whites don't like dark skin. There's an advantage for them, but there are nothing but disadvantages for blacks to dislike the skin they're in and the skin of their relatives and ancestors.

Self hatred due to dark skin and other devaluation of black everything by blacks is actually at the root of why blacks don't make much progress or any. This is one reason why blacks can't work together and cooperate with each other. It's almost impossible for them to work with people who they can't stand to look at. In my minglings with other groups, AAs are the only group that constantly refer to each other as "ugly." I'll really have to think about whether I've ever heard a continental African or white person use that word when referring to another one of them or any person. I've heard Nigerians use the expression "not presentable," to mean 'less than' in appearance but usually this refers to being unekmpt in general appearance. Whereas, the term "ugly" is a staple of AA comedians and many other AAs use this term.

Dark skin just means MORE melanin. Melanin, in itself, is not harmful. Studies have shown that melanin may actually be very beneficial. I stumbled upon something recently that sheds more light on this plague on black folks in general, but I'm still reading it

So to have such an aversion and to make critical decision based on that dislike of melanin is just, IMO, a sickness.

And I agree that if bm preferred dark skinned women or pursued them the same as light-white women, dark-skinned women would love their skin almost overnight because women want to appeal to men. This is why many ww have eating disorders in an attempt to keep weight off to appeal to men. So much of those bm-only bw's wanting to be lighter has to do with attracting bm.

In actuality, most of all of this free fall among blacks worldwide these days is driven by the bm's dislike of himself and his feelings of inadequacy. This impacts everything in the black world.

[LorMarie]

This is a real catch-22 for me. I am a dark-skinned black woman who prefers lighter men. To me it's no different than a light skinned black woman who prefers dark men. I don't hate myself, my brown skin color, or even dark men. I find light skin in a man attractive. To me, it's not a problem.

[Evia]

This is a real catch-22 for me. I am a dark-skinned black woman who prefers lighter men. To me it's no different than a light skinned black woman who prefers dark men. I don't hate myself, my brown skin color, or even dark men. I find light skin in a man attractive. To me, it's not a problem.

LorMarie, IMO, it's not really a catch-22 situation because QUALITY trumps ***everything***else.

I don't see anything wrong with preferring lighter men, or choosing the lighter-whiter man IF it's on the basis of his qualities and traits, but I do see everything wrong with DISCRIMINATION against QUALITY dark-skinned men on the basis of skin shade--a RACIALLY inherited trait. Let me repeat: Dark skin is a racially inherited trait, which is unlike MOST other traits that you can name. Yes, people discriminate against others due to bad teeth, height, weight, lack of education, lack of money, class, etc. but NONE of those are RACIALLY inherited.

Remember that skin shade discrimination has a horrific history. My site would not even be necessary if not for that history. If not for that history, singlehood among AA women would be about the same as it is among other women in this country. If any black person is going to rule out history, then none of this would make ANY sense and my site shouldn't even be of interest to them.

White racism is nothing more than discriminating against people, depriving them the same opportunities, access and rights as others because they're not light enough or don't have what's considered a "white" skin shade. So when bm or bw discriminate on the basis of dark skin shade, they're simply upholding the basic foundation upon which white racism was built.

But, they're also limiting their pool of QUALITY people.

That's all I'm saying. I believe that if a man or woman is of QUALITY, it's terribly racist to cross them off the list due to their dark skin shade. You don't need to agree with me. It's your perogative whether you go out there and discriminate against dark men or not.

Let me also point out that just because you have a preference doesn't mean you have to act on it, especially if you KNOW that it could ultimately set you back or harm you or your group's interest (if you care about your "group"). I'm sure you realize that all preferences are not good ones for us in the short or long run and some of them were instilled and shaped in us by harmful others.

I personally prefer dark-haired men with dark eyes. They really turn me on to the max, however I dated a blonde man with blue eyes for a while before I met Darren BECAUSE he seemed to be a Quality man. I broke up with him because he wasn't suitable for me, but a few days before I met Darren, I met a red-haired guy through an online dating service I'd joined. We had started e-mailing each other and talking to each other on the phone. Then I met dark-haired, dark-eyed Darren one night and the rest is history. LOL! My point is that if I hadn't met Darren, and if he hadn't proven himself to be a Quality man, I would have continued to check out the red-haired guy--not because I prefer red hair, but because I personally don't discriminate against people on the basis of skin shade or hair color, eye color. I realize that I could end up missing a lot of Quality people by doing that. That's why I dated all kinds of guys, regardless of race or ethnicity or skin shade, hair color or eye color, and this is why I advocate that other AA women do the same.

And there are many AAs who pass up QUALITY people all of the time because they're looking for ONLY light-skinned mates or white mates. I think that's racist because it upholds the basic foundation of white supremacy and therefore it's not smart at all for any black person to do.

[Kymberlyn]

Hmm, let me pretend to be surprised by these findings for just a second...okay, time's up.

Why are we in the black community still so afraid to talk about colorism? Probably the same reason why we're afraid to deal head-on with other such "hot-button" issues like sexism, homophobia, AIDS/HIV and teen pregnancy until it's too late and the community is irrevably harmed. We're still afraid of "airing our dirty laundry" as if we're the only racial group to have these problems.

Of course these black male college students are more attracted to lighter-skinned black women. After all, such preferences are reinforced through their exposure to rap and hip-hop vidoes, which give lighter-skinned, "good" haired women pride of place. The sad thing is, most of these students are probably enrolled in some form of African-American studies and may be well-versed in the origins and permutations of colonialism, and yet seem completely clueless that they've been well brainwashed with that same "plantation mentality".

That's why I have to disagree with you about the role the media plays in how we as black people view ourselves. How big of a role depends on the individual, but I believe that the media's constant fixation on fairer-skinned black women does play a part in reinforcing colorism, though it certainly isn't the main culprit.

I will say this Evia--your blog is a breath of fresh air and every black woman in the world needs to be digesting your wisdom like they would a good and satisfing meal. I thought I was the only black woman in the world to feel this way--about how we are devalued and denigrated and brainwashed by those we are supposed to trust.

Your love for your sisters is evident and it's so very needed. Keep up the strong and positive work because it's paying off whether you know it or not.

[LorMarie]

"That's all I'm saying. I believe that if a man or woman is of QUALITY, it's terribly racist to cross them off the list due to their dark skin shade. You don't need to agree with me. It's your perogative whether you go out there and discriminate against dark men or not."

Well yes, I do disagree, LOL. I don't think that discrimination is wrong in and of itself. It's wrong for me to deny someone a job because of their color or creed. But when it comes to something as personal as my bed, I'll continue to be quite discriminating on all fronts (physical, mental, and social quality counts for me).

Where we agree is that quality trumps everything else in the end. But, I have found that there are more than enough quality men among those who I find physically attractive.

Thus, I'm not bothered when bm say they prefer lighter women. After all, I generally don't prefer bm so why should I get upset when they don't prefer me? Then again, I don't get mad at anyone who might express a preference for someone other than myself. I concentrate on those who do.

[Marvon]

Hello I'm a young white male. I was clueless to the whole colorism among the African American comm until one of my co-workers pointed it out to me, "a dark skinned female". Then I started to take notice.
This was a African American owned company and all of the light skinned or medium skinned got the office and management jobs.
I noticed that to be true with a lot of white owned companies. That's a whole nother can of worms to open.

I hope everyone has a wonderful and blessed day
Marv

[evia]

Hello I'm a young white male. I was clueless to the whole colorism among the African American comm until one of my co-workers pointed it out to me, "a dark skinned female". Then I started to take notice.
This was a African American owned company and all of the light skinned or medium skinned got the office and management jobs.
I noticed that to be true with a lot of white owned companies. That's a whole nother can of worms to open.

Yes, colorism (or the preference for light-bright-white skin) is a twin of racism. We all know there are lots of racist whites and many blacks constantly point that out, HOWEVER, many of those same blacks who blast whites for being racist against blacks are ALSO racist against dark-skinned ones of us because they use a racial characteristic (skin shade derived from West African ancestry) to discriminate--the same as racist whites do.

But bm who use a woman's light/white skin for the reason to approach her for dating, sex appeal, love, or marriage don't call it racism; they call it "preference." LOL!!!

That's the height of hypocrisy. Or these same hypocritical bm who whine constantly about how whites are racist against them will say, "Well, light-skinned bw are still black, or that Puerto Rican women or Cuban women still have black in them, so there's nothing wrong with "preferring" these light skinned women for their skin."

Or some of the most dimwitted ones of these males actually try to compare a bw preferring a tall man to a bm discriminating against dark-skinned women!!! There is NO comparison here because height is NOT a race-based trait. You can find tall men in every race.

[One More Time]

Everyone has a preference; you cannot do anything about that. The standard of beauty in the US is of lighter skin; the majority of black men will prefer lighter toned women. Is it unfair? Yes. But you cannot force people to date someone they are not attracted to. The heart wants what it wants.

[evia]

@OneMoreTime/Meatman re:

Everyone has a preference; you cannot do anything about that. The standard of beauty in the US is of lighter skin; the majority of black men will prefer lighter toned women. Is it unfair? Yes. But you cannot force people to date someone they are not attracted to. The heart wants what it wants.

Let me just mention that your email moniker showed up as "Meatman" so you're a guy or a woman posting the male view.

The standard of male success in America is a white man, yet bw are criticized to the max and called all kinds of names by bm when we zoom past bm and consider wm as mates. Well, my heart wanted what it wanted too; I wanted a QLL man who had a very high probability of being a strong provider and protector, and I knew that a relative very few AA men would meet my criteria.

So keep that thought about what my heart wanted in mind as you read my site and hear more and more bw of all skin shades these days stating they're very interested in non-AA men or even non-bm period as lovers and husbands, and dads to our children. More and more bw are saying that bm shouldn't even apply, just as you said bm are saying that dark skinned bw shouldn't apply.

I want ALL bw to sear those words of yours into their brains: "The heart wants what it wants."and according to you, the "heart" of the majority of Negro men wants a light skinned woman. Good.

But thank you for being honest about something I already knew. However, I've been accused of being divisive and lying by so many AA men--the majority of whom (as you stated) are outright practitioners of race discrimination when they reject dark skinned bw romantically. I've always known that bm here reject bw based on the African inherited trait of dark skin. Yet these same bm accuse whites of racial discrimination for rejecting them based on their dark skin and other African-inherited traits.

Bm will claim that race discrimination is illegal, whereas skinshade discrimination is not. Race discrimination wasn't illegal for most of this country's history. It's ironic that so many bm then screamed that racial discrimination was vile, sinful, and wrong, but have now turned around and embraced it as long as it means that they can easily reject dark skinned women. It just goes to show how quickly the oppressed becomes the oppressor, given the opportunity.

This is precisely why I'm indifferent to AA men. Over the years, from watching how the majority of AA men mistreat AA women, I've reached the point where I don't care what happens to practically any AA man (aside from a few AA male relatives), no matter how unjust it is. I don't care.

But I appreciate your honesty.

Now this is going to be a very controversial position that I will take, starting in my next essay. But in my very next essay, I plan to use your comment as "Exhibit A" (since it's the most recent one of its type--though there are millions of bm out there who agree with you) in making the case for as many AA woman as possible to make sure they have light-skinned daughters if they are even in the vicinity of other blacks. This means they'd better do all they can to "lighten up" their daughters --if these girls will be around black males-- and/or teach their daughters (whether dark or light) from DAY 1 not to view the average AA man as a romantic partner material.

Even a light skinned bw or even a ww could end easily up having a dark-skinned daughter if she mates with a bm, and as you said most bm in America consider darker toned women to be less-thans. I shudder to think how you would honestly or down-deep-inside view a dark-skinned daughter, if you ever had one.

Trust me. Black girls can be trained to avoid the typical bm in America. Many white and even MOST black ethnic mothers already warn their daughters to stay away from the typical AA man because of this kind of DEVOLVED thinking and the behavior it spawns. I knew a bw in college who didn't like bm at all because she said her mother had told her to cross all bm off the list as ugly, untrustworthy, and not worth s^it. Silly, idealistic me actually tried to talk her out of that type of prejudice. I actually talked to her a lot and tried to show her how racist that was. LOL!

HOWEVER, if and when I encounter bw who think like that these days, I will pass on to them what you've stated. 'The heart wants what the heart wants' AND the opposite of that is that the heart does NOT want what the heart does NOT want.

Your statement is going to stick in the minds of many AA women and those bw in similar situations who run around every day trying to help you dark skin shade discriminating bm in one way or another. Thank you for your help in making the case for bw to virtually totally avoid AA men and similar bm as serious romantic partners. What bw in her right mind would want a man like you as a father to her children! Ugh!

I would only want a father for my daughter who could and would make her feel WONDERFUL about her dark skin. Bm who have your mentality would clearly not be able to do that and you have stated that the majority of Negro men in America prefer lighted toned women.

Yet so many bw and especially darker skinned ones are accused and even BLAMED for not having confidence in our non-light/nonwhite beauty. Well, Geez! I wonder why!!

[evia]

***The comment below was submitted by BGY-a bw.

_________

I tried to post this on your Pondering site and it did not go through so I am sending it this way. Keep up the good work.

Great post Evia. I am a Dark brown skinned woman who has had to endure the kind of crap that Meat head er Meatman is putting out there most of her life until I got my mind right and threw off the yoke.

This stuff came from family, coworkers and so called friends. We dark sisters are expected to be the beast of burdens for the Black Community and the "Ladies in waiting" as it were for those women in the BC deemed attractive. We are told not to expect much out of life and not to bore us with your pain. Set your mind to taking care of yourself and put your energies to making the BC better. That is to be your lot in life.

Well I did set my mind to taking care of my self. I got a good education and a great paying job, did not get pregnant and built the kind of standard of living I wanted including home ownership,money in the bank and investments. And guess what, something amazing happened, my dark skin was not as much of an issue once I had assets. Fancy that.

Well, not so fast since it was Mr. Broken down under achiever who was interested. "You are not getting any younger sister I may be your best chance." The Church and Essence said I should try to "rehab" the damaged stuff that passes for men out here. After all no one really whats your dark behind get real.

No Thank You.

Sorry, I did not bust my behind to achieve what I did to end up with the cleaning man or an ex con or some such. I have a degree, I'm upper middle class, I want and deserve a mate that brings the same to the table. I found him. A White man with a PhD and comparable assets as I have.

Evia I am in my mid fifties. There were not resources like your site when I was coming up. My life would have been much easier if there had been. Keep up your work of helping young Black women get their mind right about their options in life.

To the younger women reading this. You can have the kind of life you want, you can have the standard of living you want and you can find a man who loves and cherishes you. He will marry you and will and want to build a life with you.
That man however will not likely be an American Black Man. It is what it is. That is just fine because there are so many other men who think your beautiful and will put the world at your feet if you give them a chance. I am living proof of this. I took the chance and have that kind of love.

Evia, continue to expose the poison that the Meatmen of the world are spreading.

[evia]

BGY, thanks for your comment.

the "Meatmen" mutants of the bc (whether they are bm or the lapdog damaged bw who suck up to these damaged males) infuriate me to the max particularly because it's a LOT of darker skin bw who are keeping those mutants from going under. I just wish those darker bw could catch a clue and let the mutants DROWN.

Honestly, I didn't know how severe this colorism plague was until I started blogging about 4 years ago. Don't get me wrong. I knew it was still going on among AAs, but I just didn't know the severity of it. My ex-husband, a Nigerian, and some other Africans used to tell me that AAs were always making indirect, nasty comments about the way Africans look (dark skin, nose shape, hair, etc.), but I did not fully believe my ex or those other Africans. I actually thought they needed counseling. I thought they were exaggerating most of it. I also thought some of them were just trying to make AAs look stupid. LOL! But Wow! When I started blogging, the truth hit me in the face from all directions. A LOT of AAs don't need any help looking stupid.

Young black AA women are facing a catastrophic mating situation because if a large portion of young women of any group can't or don't mate with Quality males, it seriously alters the destiny of that group of women FOREVER. The group DEVOLVES forever because it doesn't take that long for the genetic composition of the group to mutate downward.

Down south where I grew up, black people used to do all they could to investigate the potential suitors of their daughters to make sure the males were NOT mutants of some sort. That was serious business to those families!

Just over the Thanksgiving holiday when I visited with my family down there, my 73 year old aunt told me how her family investigated my uncle's family (my family) before they would allow her to marry my uncle. My aunt was 25 when she met my uncle. These days, much younger bw are all alone and on their own selecting a Mr. Right, and it's not surprising that they're usually picking Mr. Wrongs because (1) young people are virtually always swayed and seduced by superficial glitter and (2) the lion's share of the males they've been programmed to mate with (bm) in their physical surroundings are Mr. Wrongs.

Unfortunately too, as you alluded, so many young black girls have had their spirits beaten down by other BLACK people until many of them are just convinced at an early age that they're not worthy or desirable, so they accept the scraps. If I had a black daughter, I would NEVER allow her to mingle in any setting where there were AA or similar males of the Meatmen type, and as he said, the majority of AA men have that damaged mentality. This is actually obvious to anyone who observes their behavior. Anyone could call me whatever they'd want to call me, but my first responsibility would be to my child.

A lot of black parents do not want to face the fact that their young daughters are being poisoned to the point where they will want to self-destruct at an early age-- and this poison is not coming from white folks, but from BLACK folks who look just like them. I KNOW this because I've gotten some horrendous notes from some younger bw over the last 4 years. These young bw have their whole lives ahead of them, but they struggle everyday with whether they want to continue living, due to the sordid social scene. Life looks just that dim for them.

The solution: FLEE from the DBRs!!

[Mary]

"Anyone could call me whatever they'd want to call me, but my first responsibility would be to my child."

this statement sums up what most women feel for their children. An african mother (and other foreign mothers) is the first one to advise her daughter to marry white if she can. it's not about self hate or anything; it's pretty easy to see who rules the world, who's in power, and also who treats their women better. so it's only natural to push your daughter towards an easier, better life.

that's why i carry a lot of sympathy for AA girls. because if your mother is not your biggest fan, adviser or advocate, then who is??? if she doesn't have your best interest at heart, then who does? from what I've seen, and my experience is limited with AA mothers (and i hope that what i have seen is NOT the norm) but i see a lot of AA mothers, feeding and clothing their daughters...and that's about it. it's really sad but that's it. advice, rules and strategy about the opposite sex does not exist. meanwhile, i can tell you from personal experience that Indian, Chinese and Japanese girls get a lot of help in the finding a partner department...their parents do not play around when it comes to that (or anything else for that matter).

Asian women are the shrewdest group of women i have ever met. they do not play games

[evia]

@Mary re:

An african mother (and other foreign mothers) is the first one to advise her daughter to marry white if she can.

Well, I know and have met a lot of African mothers over the years, and I can't quite agree with you. SOME African mothers are just as backwards as most AA mothers in this regard because they'll say "The wife has to go with the husband," and they don't want their daughters to be pulled away from their African family and culture. When I'm around some of the African women I know in this country who are now desperately hoping their daughters will get married soon or wishing their grown educated daughters would even get serious boyfriends, I don't dare anymore bring up IR dating. When I have done that, their eyes start darting just like some AA women. LOL!

that's why i carry a lot of sympathy for AA girls. because if your mother is not your biggest fan, adviser or advocate, then who is???

Well, the mothers themselves are clueless about marrying QLL men. So, they can't advise what they don't know. And even if they were interested in pointing their daughter towards QLL non-bm, they don't know how to shape their daughters or shape the situation to make that more probable or are afraid they'll lose their "black card." As a matter of fact, without knowing it, many AA mothers (even middle class ones)do not know how to vet men and therefore point their daughters at only DBRbm or shape them to live in lonely cages by limiting their exposure towards the general society or shape their daughters not to embrace general society.

The thing is that AA men get on the internet and talk this "hate whitey" stuff, but whenever Darren and I go out to more upscale places, we ALWAYS see AA men there --either chatting it up with ww or they're there alone. They're obviously hoping to meet women (as most men are), and there are NO bw in the vicinity. So, I know who they're trying to meet. I always wonder: "Where are the bw?" because there are opportunities for them to chat it up with non-bm too in those places and without appearing to be obvious.

Excuse my digression here, but it is so important for adults not to pass on their prejudices to youth.

I was sitting in church on Sunday and the minister was slamming muslims and homosexuals. I was so happy that my sons don't attend that church!! (Sigh) It's getting harder and harder to avoid people who want to slam groups. I slam DBRs because of the obvious harm they do, however, no homosexual has ever done any harm to me or anyone I know, so why would I personally have a problem with them? I do have a problem with terrorists (including the bm terrorists who savage bw), but I don't have any problem with muslims who are not terrorists. This is why we can't get the poison out of people. Each generation passes on their poison to the next. I'm not going to have my sons growing up as haters of other groups or as homophobes. Hating people often takes up most of the energy in the hater's life.

i can tell you from personal experience that Indian, Chinese and Japanese girls get a lot of help in the finding a partner department...their parents do not play around when it comes to that

First of all, those groups have cultures and leaders who want and are PLANNING for their people to be around for another 5,000 years; AAs do not. Secondly, the leadership of those groups have made the DECISION that they're going to not only survive--but also thrive now and in the future. This means they're willing to do whatever is necessary.

Certain ONES (a minority) of us AAs think like that, but, as a group, AAs don't think on that level. I, for one, decided early in my life that I was going to live well, "by any means necessary" (as Malcolm X advocated) as long as it was legal and not against my moral code. When a person or group makes a decision, they then get their behavior in sync with that decision. This is why making a decision is critical.

Unfortunately, even many of the bw readers of my site and similar ones have not made a decision. They're still resorting to "I can't" or "It's too hard" or "I'm scared" or "I'm waiting," or "I don't know what to do," etc. When you make a decision, you make it a point to get whatever you need to move forward and act on that--no matter what.

[funkystarkitty50]

First of all, I want to say that you, Evia are an inspiration to so many women who want to be empowered with the knowledge that they CAN and DESERVE the best and nothing less. Thank you for all that you do.
Secondly, I have witnessed firsthand the ugliness of skin shade rejection in HS when a beautiful Nigerian friend of mine wanted me to give a note to a boy she liked who rode my bus. After he had gotten the note, he ridiculed her with his friends because of her dark complexion. He was the same complexion that she was, but yet, he was saying horrible things to her. That was my turning point, even though he wasn't doing it to me, I saw the hurt and the tears that his cruelty caused her. Unfortunately, I have seen more of the same over the years and I've come to the conclusion that it is an epidemic in the Black community. Beauty comes in all shades and ignorance does as well.

[evia]

@funkystarkitty50

Thanks so much!

Yeah, this colorism monster is really horrendous and AAs hates to "really" talk about it because it shines the light on bm pursuing women for their lighter skin shade. Some AAs will say "yeah, that colorstruck stuff is bad," and they then go on to the next topic because SO MANY AAs harbor a degree of colorism to some extent.

Yes, plenty of AA women want to be light and also teach their daughters to put a premium on lightness because they KNOW that any bw is more sought after by a gazillion more bm, comparatively, if the woman is lighter. Remember that up until recently, bm were the only men that 99.999% of AA women mated with and married, so of course, most women want to give their children as many options as possible.

I have benefited from black folks by having lighter brown skin (during most months of the year). I've had enough black males to comment favorably on my complexion to know that if I were darker or dark chocolate, they wouldn't have been interested in me--AT ALL.

I happen to be ONE of those AAs who does not have any degree of colorism in me.From the time I was a "thinking" child, I wondered why so many black folks salivated over light skin. I now understand how it got started, but that's no reason for it to continue. Yet, dumb AAs will shrug it off, saying "Well, white folks taught us to hate ourselves," yet many of these same black folks can't understand that other people from other groups who have pride in themselves don't want to be around self-hating, mentally crippled negroes.

Also, I've been reading lately that some bm are now claiming that 'ALL men like lighter women.' That's their new excuse/cover. LOL! They claim that men in all groups prefer women who are lighter or have paler skin than the men's skin. This is totally bogus because most women in most groups are only a little lighter than the men, if at all. Even then, those men do not engage in WHOLESALE rejection or ridicule of women in their group who are less pale, except in rare circumstances--like in India where there's a caste system in effect.

So the next time a bm takes cover in that whole 'ALL men prefer lighter women' excuse, every bw present should pressure him to provide ample PROOF. Demand to know where he got that from. Demand proof and substantial proof--not just one or two articles. If something is universal as in "ALL," then there's a lot of proof available. And bw should not accept any 'proof' from or about other color struck men of any race or nationality or any researcher who has an ax to grind. Bw really must start nailing these LIARS to the wall!!

[Zipporah]

I'm glad today that many young black girls are actually 'getting off' the colorism bandwagon because when they are in places where there are few black men, they do a lot better job finding friends or mates, thanks to you and websites like yours. The only problem though is many also don't know about your website and other BWE websites.

[evia]

I'm glad today that many young black girls are actually 'getting off' the colorism bandwagon because when they are in places where there are few black men

Thanks for your comment. These girls have no idea how fortunate they are!

I grew up around all black people and some of them in the community were definitely lovers of light skin, but the head folks in my family (grandmother, uncles, etc.) often talked about how foolish those light skin loving negroes were. LOL! So, I knew from early on that something was very wrong with blacks who salivated over folks simply because of light skin.

I also found out when I became a preteen and teen girl that I could easily manipulate the black males in my community who liked me because of my complexion and I'm not even actually light-skinned. Most females KNOW what males like about them because most males are quite transparent when it comes to that.

[Tiffany]

I thought that everyone was well aware of the cliché distortions of ancient symbolism and historical facts white scholars use, but maybe that’s just me. The bogus researcher who made this claim that men historically and universally prefer lighter or whiter women is an airhead to put it lightly. I've seen a website about how he came to research that topic. He noticed the pattern of White Hollywood images with light-skinned women and then LOOKED for it in ancient cultures. Essentially he PROJECTED what he was looking for on other cultures. You don't do that in anthropology. When you research you’re supposed to let the evidence speak for itself. Meaning you go from the bottom up. He used a top down approach which is backward.

He used the same misinterpretations of ancient SYMBOLISM as European Imperialists. I know because I've seen those arguments before. The Moors of Spain favored lighter skin??? Well there's a doozy because THE MOORS WERE BLACK!!! He, like so many other white "historians," must have made stuff up. That's the just as stupid as saying the Ancient Egyptians favored light skin. And the Aztecs??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! The guy completely misinterpreted an ancient custom where the bride's face was painted in gold dust. Most, if not all, ancient cultures were sun worshippers and that’s why you’ll see similar colors such as yellow, white, or red being used. It had nothing to do with race or preferring light skin.

The same logic misinterpreted India’s caste system which ISN’T based on skin color. The disproportionate number of light-colored people in the upper caste today is the result of the various foreign invasions in India’s history. The original upper castes were dark-skinned and, I repeat, the caste system wasn’t (and still isn’t) meant to be based on skin color. It only APPEARS that way today.

When white people make these kinds of claims they are erasing a long period of history when dark skin was strongly valued. They have the nerve to imply that dark or brown people weren’t proud of their skin or the ethnic beauty of their women when they publicize their “findings.” Seriously white people intentionally, whether it is consciously or unconsciously, will look for evidence of white-skin pride anywhere because they're insecure and outnumbered. And where there is none, they'll make it up.

No one should ever take what these white nutcases write as valid research. Check your facts. If it doesn't sound right, that's because it probably isn't. It might be helpful to look up what black scholars say about the things he used as "evidence." They usually set things straight and act as a counterbalance against the fanatical subconscious biases of white scholars.

[Tina]

Well, maybe some black women should engage in some skin lightening. I know that in Africa, it's pretty prevalent and african women get married at a rate 8 x more than american blacks. I used to live next to Nigerians, and in one summer alone, she attended 6 weddings, at least. All Nigerian women as brides but they bend for their men to get married. Most women of color (non-black and non-white) lighten their skin because their men prefer lighter complexions, so it's not something that we should fight because it won't change what gets me off. Men are not "intellectual and analytical" when it comes to beauty. Either it looks good and gets them going or it doesn't. The fact is, all women alter their skin tones (even white women) to appeal to their men's tastes. No, it's not fair but that's how dating and attraction works. Either you accept it and fall in line or you deal with the consequences but no one wants to hear the complaining.

[Evia]

@Tina re:

Well, maybe some black women should engage in some skin lightening.

Nope. I'd say that dark skinned black women need to find the men who appreciate their natural complexions and totally forget about the ones who don't. Black men who discriminate against quality black women who happen to be dark are weak brained N-GG-rs. All men do not prefer lighter women. Cite research that is not bogus proving that all men prefer light skinned women. That's simply a lie that Negro men have grabbed and love to spout to make themselves feel better about lusting after light-bright-white skin. My white husband totally appreciates my skin shade just the way it is and I'm much darker than him since I'm black and he's white. He could easily have found many women who had lighter skin. There are plenty of white men in the world who love chocolate or brown skin, just as it is.

There are deadly consequences for using chemicals constantly whether externally or internally. I would never chemically bleach my skin or chemically straighten my hair just to please a man. If any man even asked me to do that, I'd know right then and there that he lacks strength/character. I dated an AA Negro man of that type who made over $140,000 a year and when he asked me to straighten my hair so that it would blow in the wind, I refused. That was the beginning of the end for him and me, but he didn't know it. I walked away from him. I don't like weak-minded men.

This is why black women need to get away from NEGROES, and there are lots of Negro men in Africa too. I decided I wasn't going to complain or deal with the consequences; I left all of those light-bright-white salivating, straight hair-lovin' weak-brained Negro men, no matter where they come from, alone.

And Tina, if you're a woman, you can have them all.

[Adeen]

This is a very good website. I am upset because I just got rejected from a guy in my own race because I am Black like him and the same comlexion him as well!So silly.My friends told me that he liked light skin girls(My mother is a Black woman of a lighter hue)and White girls better. I am open to dating outside of my race because Black men don't seem to date Black women anymore. I wish Black men appreciated their women the way other races of men appreciate their women.